Looks like the Globe's Shirley Leung has a one-way ticket on the express train to Olympicsville. Today, she quotes David D'Alessandro, you know, of the John Hancock D'Alessandros, on why a 2024 Olympics in Boston makes so much sense:
"Is it technically feasible? Of course it is," said D’Alessandro, who has attended eight Olympics. "If Atlanta can do it, Boston can do it, please. Atlanta is a second-rate city at best. And they pulled it off in 1996."
D'Alessandro then says, presumably with a completely straight face, that in a city in which people are forever figuring out new ways we can prove how world class we are, he and his fellow rich people aren't doing this because they have something to prove, but because they just want it. And what's wrong with that?
Meanwhile, the committee planning our bid has a list of venues all set, but is, of course, keeping that list secret.
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Comments
Shirley
By bulgingbuick
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:29am
water weighs 8.33 lbs. per gallon. Don't hurt yourself.
Can we just steal the World
By anon
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:32am
Can we just steal the World Cup from Qatar, have a few matches in Foxboro and put this Olympics nonsense behind us? That's all I ask.
Better Idea
By Pete X
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:34am
How about investing those billions of dollars instead into an upgraded public transport system that would provide a lasting benefit to the area? Instant World Class City.
as much as i'd really,
By cleokid
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:37am
as much as i'd really, genuinely love to see the public transportation system get some proper (and necessary!) investment, i think it'll be a cold day in hell before something of that scope happens without the pressure from something like the olympics coming.
That is exactly the only
By RhoninFire
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:23am
That is exactly the only valid reason to support the idea of hosting an Olympics (my other reason is because my hobby is an Olympic sport so it would be cool to see it here, but that's just something for me). That point would be nullified if we actually build the stuff we need regardless, but we all know they rather foot drag over the next 50 years over for almost every project.
Theoretically (and very theoretically as it is possible we could have an Olympics and they still build nothing useful for Boston), the Olympics would force up the timetable with a hard deadline.
Come on! You know the only
By Hyde_Parker
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:39am
Come on! You know the only "investment" the MBTA would manage to make and complete would be to repaint the stars in Kenmore, ala the All Star Game. Or, maybe they'd paint Olympic Rings.
Olympics have been a money loser for every city that's hosted them in recent times. I don't think Boston has the extra capital waiting around to invest.
Come on! You know the only
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:49am
Thisy this this. If anyone who thinks Boston would get any significant, lasting improvement in the MBTA infrastructure due to the Olympics, I've got a bridge to sell you, as soon as I finish replacing the salt and pepper shakers on it.
as much as i'd really,
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 11:00am
This sentence is nine words too long.
And it begins
By Sources Say
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:39am
The fact that an element of this is already being held secret at such an early stage is proof of how bad an idea this would be.
And the mawkish carping
By Chris Rich
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:57am
..by yet another wealthy douche about how Boston is so much world classier than that grubby southern peach pit does resemble whistling in a graveyard.
How Atlanta became economic hub of southeast
By Markk02474
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:54am
They built transportation instead of fighting it to keep cow paths.
http://www.examiner.com/article/atlanta-s-transpor...
You might want to research the history of railroads in Mass.
By adamg
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:14am
The answer may surprise you!
Yes, shoot me now.
Getting from Point A to B, C, or D.
By Chris Rich
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:13am
It looks like what I see in my hobby. The earliest charter was to haul granite from Quincy and then a set of lines to the key area cities followed Lowell, Worcester and Providence.
The Lowell was in competition with the canal, initially.
It's impressive how much of that initial infrastructure still works.
The Eastern Railroad line to Saugus and West Lynn is fascinating and strange. It'll be my next project and is an old route. I found the ghost of the Andover and Wilmington rail bed and one of its customers was a soapstone quarry
From an Appleton, no less.
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/abnere1.Html
Erie Canal
By adamg
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:19am
Brahmins invested heavily in rail after the canal was built, as a way to try to keep up with New York. Didn't ultimately work, obviously, but was an example of Boston leading the way with a new technology.
Oh totally.
By Chris Rich
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 2:01pm
Canals were huge before rail.
Washington endowed a college with Canal Bonds.
And when you think of ca 1790s 'tech' they really are an impressive project for a wobbly little nation just shaking off the empire..
This is a shot of the footing remnant over by the Mystic River Parkway.
https://flic.kr/p/nKXhu4
It's someone's canoe dock wall now but it shows how the canal ran above the river.
Love that house
By Alex_Toth
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 3:17pm
I gotta imagine that basement must be pretty damp.
Tavern?
By anon
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 11:14am
I heard somewhere that that house served as a tavern for the canal barge workers. Don't know if it's true.
There is a Middlesex Canal Association.
By Chris Rich
Mon, 06/23/2014 - 8:15am
It's an old school web site, utterly charming, and it's loaded with detail.
It met the Concord River in Billerica and ghost traces of it can be seen along the Lowell Rail line between Wilmington and North Billerica.
http://www.middlesexcanal.org/
And here's a clip with video detail.
http://youtu.be/NQqhFvYyl44
Atlanta graduated to roadways
By Markk02474
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:23am
It grew transportation during mode shifts per the article. The point was the city grew around where two rail systems met. It grew around transportation and continued to grow rather than strangle the growth by strangling transportation. Boston and other older cities grew around ports before there was rail, then added rail, linking it to ports. As rail faded, Boston failed to grow air and road transit as aggressively as Atlanta and other metro areas that consequently grew larger than Boston.
You're pointing to Atlanta road transit as a success?
By adamg
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:36am
I take it you've never actually tried to drive around Atlanta during rush hour? It makes 128 at rush hour look like a race track.
The airport, I'll grant you. Of course, it's easy to build a giant airport in the middle of nowhere when you're surrounded by endless mile after mile of nowhere.
The City of Atlanta has a considerably
By anon
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 9:55am
smaller population than the City of Boston. Both metro areas are comparable in size. Atlanta suburban sprawl may be a little more geographically spread out, but it's not a coastal port city.
Is that why Atlanta's highway
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:23am
Is that why Atlanta's highway system is the envy of every city in the Southeast?
Show of hands
By Michael
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:34am
Who pines for Boston to be more like Atlanta?
(looks around)
(keeps looking)
Considering one of the reasons....
By Michael Kerpan
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:20am
... we moved FROM the Atlanta area to Boston was the endless traffic (and endless driving) required in Atlanta....
... my hand stays down.
Atlanta vs Boston
By Waquiot
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 12:02pm
I remember seeing red a week or so ago when someone compared the transportation infrastructure of Boston unfavorably with Atlanta, so no, I would say that Boston compares well to Atlanta. Perhaps Boston is not as good as some other cities, but from what I have gathered, overall Atlanta is a crappy place to get around.
Some innate differences
By Markk02474
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 2:12pm
Traffic is a barometer of economic success. When people don't have jobs to go to or products and services to deliver, traffic volumes decreased. With recovery, traffic volumes are also rebounding. Consider traffic volumes in Atlanta as the price of success.
Metro Atlanta has a population 1 million greater than metro Boston, hence more traffic. The geographical area is about that of the state of Massachusetts, hence much lower housing costs from lower population density. The limiting factors of growth for cities is transportation, water, sanitation, energy, food, jobs, housing, and cost of living. Boston's ceiling is transportation and cost of living. Housing shortage and cost is satisfied by transportation to more distant areas, a dismal option here due to insufficient roadway capacity. Massachusetts is also hurt by having among the highest electric rates in the U.S. while Georgia is below average by state.
Welcome to the 2000's
By Kaz
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 2:23pm
Was. Welcome to the era of the internet.
Also, coal accounted for 12% of MA electricity in 2013. It accounted for 33% of Georgia's. In fact, at 10% of MA electricity, renewables are about to pass coal soon here. Georgia's nowhere close to that. Thanks. I'll pay a little more for living better.
Also, we may have a few Washington Streets, but at least everything isn't named Peachtree.
Also, the history of the Quabbin is what it is...but at least we have it. Atlanta's going to die of thirst pretty soon.
Induced congestion
By perruptor
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 5:40pm
"Housing shortage and cost is satisfied by transportation to more distant areas, a dismal option here due to insufficient roadway capacity. "
Adding capacity to roadways that are maxed out simply attracts more traffic. When highways are widened, there is a period when congestion is less, then the attracted new traffic jams it up again. This is an established tenet of highway engineering, confirmed by many studies, and is called "induced congestion." You can look it up. Or you could try out the rush-hour traffic on Rte 3 north of the city. It was widened a few years ago, but is now a mess again because of all the tax-free New Hamsters attracted to our unsuccessful economy.
Induced congestion = economic growth
By Markk02474
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 1:16am
Yeah, those extra drivers and trips are almost always to spend money or make money. Those NH residents found a better or more affordable place to live than metro Boston for their jobs. "Smart growth" believers rather force them to pay exorbitant real estate prices by choking transportation. Route 3 should have been doubled in width as the added lane each way only lasted 10 years. Very short sighted.
Congestion and traffic = economic drain
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 1:25am
However, you cannot build more capacity without that capacity filling up again and again and again and all the expensive problems that means for society.
Europe has a pretty good solution to this: rapid transit networks that take people and hour or more out of the cities.
Double route 3? Oh you are a fool stuck forever in yesterday. By the way, you should know (if you weren't in general ignorance and denial about the true cost of driving) that building highway capacity is ridiculously expensive and a very very poor use of taxpayer dollars to subsidize suburbs and single-car commuters. Transit and trains are a vastly more cost effective solution. I somehow doubt NH is going to pay for it.
Unless we are talking about drivers actually paying for this directly somehow - without raising my taxes.
So how cost effective are trains?
By Markk02474
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 10:01am
How many train systems in the world profit from passenger fares? What measure do you use for efficiency if not that one?
Vastly cheaper than building highways
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 10:43am
Just. effin. google. it.
Please.
It has nothing to do with "profits". It has to do with subsidy and bulk cost. Mass transit wins per passenger per mile hands down, no contest.
Farebox recovery ratio
By Sock_Puppet
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 11:03am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio
If you want to know how the Asian systems make a profit, a lot has to do with comparative cost and efficiency. Tolls alone are about 30 cents plus per mile. Getting to Tokyo from, say, Tsukuba would be easier, faster, and cheaper on a train than driving.
Tsukuba - Akihabara
Train: 45 minutes, 11 dollars fare
Car: 1 hours plus traffic time, 22 dollars in tolls
This is a distance of about 40 miles, or Worcester to Boston.
Worcester - Boston
Train: 1 1/2 hours, 10 dollars
Car: 1 hour plus traffic time, $3.60 toll
Which would you choose?
What about parking though?
By Pete Nice
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 11:18am
I take the Franklin Line into South Station every once in a while. About $8 from Norwood to South Station in 35-40 minutes. If you need to park, its another $4.
Probably about 45 minutes if you drove (during rush hour) with no tolls, $1.25 in gas, and $20-$30 to park. If you find a meter? Replace the parking with a $5-$7 meter fee for a day.
I guess it all depends on where you need to go in Boston. It's pretty random in terms of service, cost, times, parking, meters, etc.
In your case
By Sock_Puppet
Sat, 06/21/2014 - 11:32am
public transport here is already competitive with driving. I live in Boston, and that's true for me in many cases too.
If the cost of driving were increased to the Tokyo level, it would be competitive for everybody else.
That's the situation that creates a train system that pays for itself.
Pike toll vs. train fare?
By Markk02474
Mon, 06/23/2014 - 2:11am
What if we compared the toll on the Mass Pike to go from Boston to Springfield or Worcester to what the train costs? The train is much more expensive, especially if a car or bus has more than one person traveling in it for no extra cost.
While the pike tolls were tied to the funding bond payments prior to the big dig, does Tokyo's tolls represent just the cost of the roads, or are they higher as in a tax on driving?
Tax
By Sock_Puppet
Mon, 06/23/2014 - 7:42am
Japan has decided to recover more of the externalities of road transit costs into toll charges.
This may be seen as a tax on drivers if you wish.
However, not doing so is seen by others as a subsidy for drivers.
The toll on the Mass Pike doesn't even cover the Mass Pike's ongoing maintenance costs, let alone fund new construction; it runs a deficit of over 100M a year.
If the Mass Pike were Amtrak, it would be called socialist. Every time you drive on it, somebody else pays for your privilege.
Cherry Picking, Peach Picking
By anon
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 6:59pm
So. When are you moving? You seem to think things are much nicer for car-addled types such as yourself, despite what people who have lived there are saying.
me thinks
By PNutt
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:56am
the Globe wants this for the same reason all the other big money does: lining up to line their pockets. What no money to be made on the expanded BCEC, but there is here?
Straw man
By perruptor
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 8:59am
The question is not CAN Boston host an Olympics. The question is Should Boston host an Olympics.
For most people in or near the city, the answer is no. Also, who really cares whether Boston makes some lame listicle of "world class" cities?
Were you living here during
By Hyde_Parker
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:44am
Were you living here during the 1999 Ryder Cup tourny? A golf tournament at the Brookline Country Club somehow caused complete traffic gridlock every morning during its run. The Expressway was completely stopped. If a simple golf tournament held in one place can do that, can you imagine the mayhem that would result from a two-week event held at multiple venues in the Boston area? Nope, I can't.
So I think whether or not Boston CAN host an Olympics is still a very valid question.
The Expressway was completely
By Ari O
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 1:30pm
In other words, it was a day ending in "y"
Especially during the Big Dig (1999 was its height) and mostly since, the Expressway is completely stopped, uh, every morning.
So what's your point? We can
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 2:33pm
So what's your point? We can throw an extra million or two drivers onto the road and nobody will even notice the difference?
We're not going to have an extra 2 million drivers
By Waquiot
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 4:13pm
Assuming we go forward on this and "win" the Olympics.
Most attendees would want public transport, which, were the T successful in providing, would be the one thing everyone would be happy about afterwards. Moreover, a lot of locals would turn tail and flee Boston for the duration- I may be wrong, but this has happened in other locales. Also, it's not like 2 million people will show up individually and want to drive. They will come in pairs, at least.
The Ryder Cup was a pretty big deal, and the infrastructure was not (and I will say still is not) there. The Country Club has the huge downside of being in the kind of suburban but definitely not urban location, nice on most days but a horrible when thousands descend on it.
In short, the traffic won't be good, but that's one of those "do we really want to do this" questions, since I am sure other applicants will have the same issues.
Most attendees would want
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 5:33pm
ROFL. I'm sorry, I thought you were serious. This is pure gold.
You do realize that if "Boston" wins the Olympics, the events are going to be held all over Eastern Massachusetts, right? Probably within the whole I-495 loop. Nobody's going to be "happy" about trying to attend events in Framingham or Foxboro or wherever if they have to get there via public transportation. Can you imagine? Let's say you're staying at a hotel in Waltham (if you're lucky; you could be staying in Worcester, or Seabrook) and you want to get to an Olympic event in Foxboro. You're going to do that without a car? Or you're going to drive into Boston and park at South Station? Let's get real, shall we?
Bulk of the events would be in Boston
By Waquiot
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:54pm
Sure, Foxborough would get soccer (along with venues across the country, if 1984 is a guide) but the big name events would be T accessible, and the Foxbouough option would be one of those infrastructure improvements.
I will admit that some attendees will insist on driving, but one the other hand, you said 1 to 2 million. That number made me laugh, but I didn't fall on the floor. Were I drinking milk, all bets on milk out the nose would be off.
Motor coaches
By Markk02474
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 5:42pm
play a big role in event transportation. Making Storrow and Memorial Drives able to accommodate them would be a wonderful thing in itself, though depriving news outlets of recurring events to report. With so many roads at or above capacity, construction periods would be very painful.
Are you going to pay for this?
By anon
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 7:03pm
Out of your pocket?
Oh, and there is this Interstate that can accommodate those buses already ... half a mile away.
What a ridiculous waste of money further interstatizing our waterfronts would be. What an fool you are.
Sensationally....
By THE_WIZ
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:05am
Reductionist.
Makes me think Sobo Yuppie = D'Allesandro.
Hmmmm....
If Atlanta is a 2nd rate city
By Rob Not Verified
Fri, 06/20/2014 - 9:06am
If Atlanta is a 2nd rate city after hosting the Olympics, why are we to believe Boston would become a 1st-rate city after hosting the Olympics? Their own logic makes no sense...
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